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Democracy takes another hit

Jesus-effing-Christ-on-a-waterboard!

Senate Votes to Expand Spy Powers


So, even with a Democratic majority in Congress, we're still trapped in a descent into totalitarianism? This is why it doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or Republican: They're both agents of sustaining their own power.

I give up.

Chris

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( 39 comments — Leave a comment )
tmseay
Feb. 13th, 2008 04:26 pm (UTC)
It's worth noting that every one of the nay votes was a Democrat; every single Republican voted in favor.
mckitterick
Feb. 13th, 2008 04:29 pm (UTC)
Well, that's something.

Who the hell are these "Democrats" who voted in favor of this?
clevermanka
Feb. 13th, 2008 04:33 pm (UTC)
I'm trying to find a list of who voted how right now...

Here: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00015

Edited at 2008-02-13 04:34 pm (UTC)
(no title) - tessagratton - Feb. 13th, 2008 04:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - mckitterick - Feb. 13th, 2008 04:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - sf_reader - Feb. 13th, 2008 05:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - ianrandalstrock - Feb. 14th, 2008 01:32 am (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - steve98052 - Feb. 17th, 2008 11:05 am (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - mckitterick - Feb. 13th, 2008 04:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - clevermanka - Feb. 13th, 2008 04:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - mckitterick - Feb. 13th, 2008 04:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - fortyozspartan - Feb. 13th, 2008 04:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - mckitterick - Feb. 13th, 2008 04:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - fortyozspartan - Feb. 13th, 2008 04:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - mckitterick - Feb. 13th, 2008 05:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - fortyozspartan - Feb. 13th, 2008 05:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - clevermanka - Feb. 13th, 2008 05:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no title) - mckitterick - Feb. 13th, 2008 05:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no title) - ianrandalstrock - Feb. 14th, 2008 01:34 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no title) - steve98052 - Feb. 17th, 2008 11:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no title) - silverfae - Feb. 19th, 2008 08:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no title) - silverfae - Feb. 20th, 2008 02:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
clevermanka
Feb. 13th, 2008 04:31 pm (UTC)
Yes, but as Harry Reid says, there was no corralling the Democrats into a forming a majority on the issue, which I find insulting and appalling. This failure means that they're not a majority. They aren't acting as a group. And they don't represent me.
clevermanka
Feb. 13th, 2008 04:29 pm (UTC)
Gee, Lydia, why don't you join the Democratic Party? It's only your silly principles for goodness' sake!

Gah.

But don't give up.
fortyozspartan
Feb. 13th, 2008 04:44 pm (UTC)
"while the two Democrats, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, did not vote. Mr. Obama did oppose immunity on a key earlier motion to end debate. Mrs. Clinton, campaigning in Texas, issued a statement saying she would have voted to oppose the final measure"

Epic fail in my opinion...

"And the thing that’s so dramatic about this is that you’ve removed the court review."

Bye-bye checks and balances! F the constitution comin straight from the G to the W.

"they could bankrupt the companies and discourage them from cooperating in future intelligence operations"

Aww poor babies. That is just terrible that they would suffer consequences for pooping on American's implied right to privacy. They are corporations after all!

"Unfortunately, those who are advocating this notion that you have to give up liberties to be more secure are apparently prevailing"

It's funny, I used to think this country was about sacrifice to maintain freedom and liberties. I thought the founding fathers had something to say about that...
mckitterick
Feb. 13th, 2008 04:51 pm (UTC)
Hear, f-in hear!

In fact, back when I could stand listening to his voice for longer than a second or so, I seem to recall George Jr. using the word, "Freedom" an awful lot as justification for, say, invading other nations and such.

Um, Junior, when did you start hating freedom?
silverfae
Feb. 20th, 2008 02:14 pm (UTC)
Because "Freedom" is a buzzword in AmeriKa,

and by golly, it's guns and God that got us that, you damn hippy liberal.

/sarcasm
ianrandalstrock
Feb. 13th, 2008 05:29 pm (UTC)
The Democrats have been in control of Congress for 13 months, and you're just now twigging to the fact that they haven't done a damn thing, and seem completely unable to get themselves together enough to even attempt to exert their will?

Sorry, I've been watching them since they started the "give us a majority in Congress and we'll fix all the ills Bush has visited on you" from the beginning, wondering when they were going to do that. They haven't yet. I'm no longer surprised; just disappointed (especially that immunity provision).
mckitterick
Feb. 13th, 2008 05:34 pm (UTC)
I hear you, but this particular vote did surprise me.

Actually, if we take a step back, I can remember the days of Republican = personal freedom, when the GOP was much more Libertarian. Golly, but are those days dead and gone.

Why doesn't Ron Paul just drop out of the Repub. Party and make a go of it as a Libertarian? Sure, he doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning (especially as his racist leanings have come to light), but his rabid supporters might be able to help give that party the boost it needs to help counter the current Two-Faced MonoParty ruling the country.
(Deleted comment)
ianrandalstrock
Feb. 14th, 2008 01:27 am (UTC)
And yet, for all I tend to disagree with the concept, it works.

The US government was designed to act slowly, to not be responsive to the will of the suddenly formed mob (which will probably disappear just as quickly), but to muddle through slowly, to enable the people to live without too much government breathing down our necks. The biggest problem, I think, is the slow accretion of the government bureaucracy, which can't be hacked apart. Consider, George Washington had four officers in his Cabinet (State, Treasury, War, and Attorney General), and I don't think AG even had a department under him.

The two-party system is not the cause, it's the result. The result of our "winner take all" electoral process. If we had proportional representation (see, for example, Israel), smaller parties could thrive, knowing that winning a few percent of the vote would be sufficient for a few seats in the governing body. But when it's winner take all, the way to win is to position your party as close to the middle of the political landscape as possible. You know the people who are your staunch supporters are never going to vote for the other guy, so the entire campaign is about convincing the 30-40% in the middle to lean your way just a little bit.
(no title) - mckitterick - Feb. 14th, 2008 03:47 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no title) - silverfae - Feb. 19th, 2008 08:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
ianrandalstrock
Feb. 14th, 2008 01:23 am (UTC)
Didn't Ron Paul start out as a Libertarian? I thought he went Republican to, like, have a possibility of actually winning. I like the Libertarians, don't get me wrong, but they're so militant on some of their stances that they're highly unlikely to ever be able to win. I think Ron Paul going Republican was actually a sign of rationality (although, as you said, the whole package isn't all that appealing).
mckitterick
Feb. 14th, 2008 03:47 am (UTC)
Yep, and I understand all that. Still, a guy can dream.
steve98052
Feb. 17th, 2008 11:43 am (UTC)
No, he's been a Republican pretty much his whole career. He ran for President some time ago as a Libertarian, but that wasn't a shift in character so much as a rejection of George HW Bush as a phony conservative.
( 39 comments — Leave a comment )

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